I sooo want to try YBF's Boost and Antioxidants! If I like it, the brand will spread like wildfire since each time I like a product thats all I talk about! It happened with Peter Thomas Roth's Laser Free Serum, Atralin andDr. Denese's Firming Glycolic Pads!!!

Hi Susan,
That was kind of you & thank you.

We will continue to keep an eye out for ingredient alternatives and pursue them when we think we've found one that's proven safer and is widely accepted as a safe alternative.

Prop's role in Antioxidants is to make ferulic acid soluble so that it works in the formula, but if we find a better alternative we'll indeed look into a switch.

Thank you again and all my best,
Darrell

Hi Darrell,

First off, I'd like to retract the word "misstepped" and apologize for using it. YBF did no such thing.

I stand behind my view of propylene glycol, due to studies and lack of them and toxicology reports, etc. It is widely used, I know. It is economic. It is an effective carrier (though the manner in which it changes skin for penetration I would like to know).

Almost every toiletry article contains it. One must be particularly deliberate for it to be absent from a bathroom (or kitchen).

YBF continues to be a superior product. I never meant to infer otherwise, and again, I apologize for evidently giving such an impression.

YBF's Correct is the BEST eye cream on the market, hands down. Period.

Don't be sad, Darrell. You have no reason to be.

Darrell, I can't speak on the Refresh product, but your Antioxidants is amazing! I understand that not every product will produce the same or even similar results for everyone, but for those of us who are the recipients of it, you've got a friend in me indeed! I'm on a really tight budget and so hopefully will be able to tryout your Refresh and a few of the other products, but as for now, the YBF Antioxidants is the best!!! I thank you and all those involved, on behalf of this 57 year old brown eyed "beauty", cuz that's what this is all about after all, THANK YOU!!!!!

Hi Susan,
It makes me very sad to read your comment.

It makes me sad, not because propylene glycol is a actually a safe ingredient for use in skincare (sometimes mistaken for a form of glycol used in antifreeze), but because we've actually used in our product line from the beginning -- going back to 2004.

Propylene glycol was not a new ingredient to the line as part of the new product offerings.

So, I don't quite understand your comment about a misstep. Yes, we have indeed broadened our selection of products -- and done so not only to bring new solutions but also at more affordable price points.

Ingredients we have introduced to our line as part of the new and more affordable priced products include carnosine, bisabolol, tumeric extract, resveratrol, ferulic acid, olive squalane, tetradecylthioacietic acid -- and the list goes on -- these are all great ingredients which are new to our line. Where is the misstep Susan? Please help me see.

Sincerely,
Darrell Owens

A bit ironic, I'm on TIA to try and figure out what line I want to try as I need a good anti-aging, hydrating cream, and I happen upon these posts. It's been a bit of fresh air, actually.
Karolyn, I agree with you at this point, in picking a cream/serum/skincare line, you must pick your poison. There is something amiss with every line and there is no perfect line out there. It's kind of like searching for the Holy Grail.
YBF has misstepped in that trying to broaden their base by reducing price points, they have introduced ingredients not before seen into their line, such as, propylene glycol. Eeek. Such a thing hurts this purist's heart.
Your mention of Organic Apoteke has me interested. The other line I think I'll examine more closely is Tilvee.
As always, thanks TIA for providing this platform.

I'm always excited to see debate such as this - it's what makes TIA a place to really learn and understand, plus gain new information from others' experiences and knowledge. No sitting on laurels; everything is up for inspection. It keeps things honest. Thanks for being forthright, everyone; I feel like there was real exchange and connection going on. It's refreshing.

Arandjel -
thanks for your comments and for your update on trying YBF products and the results you are seeing.

Having used all of the products reviewed, I have to say I am still a committed YBF user - no matter what the ingredient. They work! Just last night I had cocktails with a friend I had not seen in over a year. When I reminded her that I was almost 50 she literally spit her drink out. I'm serious - it was hysterical! Oh, the power of YBF (and great genes, thanks Mom & Dad!!!). She wanted to know every product that I used and after taking copious notes I then told her that in addition to YBF products being exceptional - I relayed an instance where I recieved personal communication and service from Darrell when I had a problem with a pump on my bottle of Correct. Once she heard all of this, great products AND stellar customer service, I beleive YBF now has another new customer!

Thank you for your continued quest to provide trailblazing products - my face thanks you!

I found this site today while researching organic skincare products. Karolyn, I found your post so very helpful! You've given me a place to start searching for a product that's right for me. I appreciate this so much!

Like Arandjel above, I very much appreciate the information that's so freely given on this site, and come back again and again to research ingredients and products. What I'd meant to do in my initial comment was simply point out what I thought was a quite glaring omission in YBF's website discussion of their ingredients. I didn't realize the close connection this site has to YBF, nor that my comment would be taken as adversarial -- which wasn't at all what I expected or what I intended.

Even less did I mean to condemn YBF's products in a general sense. But to me not condemning doesn't mean we have to take at face value every claim a company makes or accept their purity of heart (and ingredients) without question.

And when it comes to products, there simply is no line that I would recommend without qualification. I've never found one (though John Masters comes pretty darned close) that makes total ingredient sense to me, much less one that doesn't throw in a few questionable ingredients -- usually as surreptitiously as the company possibly can.

But some companies do speak to me more than others. Right now, I am using a mix of Luzern Laboratories and Boscia stand-bys, along with a line that's new to me, Organic Apoteke. So, yes, I am attempting to green my skincare. But I'm doing that with my eyes open to the the fact that none of these companies is totally pure. Or transparent.

Luzern, for example, uses silicones quite a bit more freely than I'd like (and no squalane!), and they obviously slip in Biovert without mentioning it as such. However, when it comes to this kind of thing, Boscia's even more dodgy. The Lonicera Caprifolium and Lonicera Japonica that have been appearing in their growing line of new and sexier potions is obviously Campo Plantservative, yet Boscia still announces in all caps "NO PRESERVATIVES!" At least Luzern says "no chemical preservatives," though I think it's still probably debatable that Biovert is "natural."

But so it goes. It's the nature of the business. And I actually like the fact that the Luzern Force de Vie Eye Contour I keep returning to has a preservative system because, really, the last thing I want is a raging infection in my eye.

And I like the cream besides -- mostly because it doesn't irritate the ultra-sensitive and reactive skin around my eyes and it still has a few jazzy polypeptide actives, which almost no sensitive care creams ever do. Marta, I think, would probably object to the sodium benzoate in the mix, and I can't say that I like it either, especially since there's C palmitate in the mix with it, and, as I learned from Marta in her review of Ole Henriksen's Express the Truth, this is a pretty serious reason for oh noes.

But in skincare, it seems to me you pick your poison, so I go with Force de Vie around my eyes because it doesn't make my eyelids blister and blow up, and it really does reduce puffiness.

As far as Boscia goes, it (generally but not invariably) does no harm but it admittedly isn't all that effective. The Amino AG eye treatment is good for me in that it doesn't blow up my lids either but it doesn't flatten them as much as Luzern does. Still, when you have reactive skin like I do, it can be enough that a product does no harm and lubricates a bit. And anyone who's dealt with itching, redness and scaly patches on even a semi-regular basis will know exactly what I mean. So Boscia is plain and dumpy, but I still depend on it.

And for excitement, I try new lines like John Masters and Naturopathica out and, as I said, my current experiment is Organic Apoteke. Now I know this line got slammed here for its fragrance, and it's got sodium benzoate in its mixes to boot(though without the killer coupling of it with Vit. C)-- but I'm liking it, especially since it's one of the few "natural and organic" lines (John Masters is of course another) that isn't laden with benzyl alcohol. Or with linalool, limonene, and eugenol.

I've been using the Organic Apoteke line for about ten days now, with no irritation and only a very short breaking in period, and I have to say my skin's starting to look really very glowing -- so much so I'm beginning to forgive the admittedly rather odd fragrance. Actually, I'm starting to like it, or force myself to like it because of the good results.

And I guess that, in itself, just about says it all. I mean, who would keep up with potions that have an offputting scent if they weren't working? Nobody.

I agree that the discourse, exchange of information and keeping us on our toes is essential.Thank you Arandjel for the contribution you make to all of these.

I am dying to know what your regular eye cream is (and anything else that you like).

Karolyn certainly has a point. Unfortunately, people of this forum (and other similar ones) tend to be emotional rather than factual. It's not a matter of liking or disliking particular products, but about discussing certain ingredients and questioning the consistency of the articles presented here. Initiating that kind of discourse is essential to the progress of this site, and is in no way an attack on Marta, or her coauthors. I think we all deeply appreciate their hard work, which is the reason to why we're all here in the first place.

And as for YBF, I recently broke down and got myself Correct - for Christmas. I have been using it on and off for a couple of weeks now -in minuscule amounts under my regular eye cream, and think it actually, to some degree, reduces eye bags. Not to mention the divine scent of it - like cookies. I'm still not quite sure how scientifically proven all those peptides are (they defy logics when it comes to skin penetration as well as interaction), so I'm hoping for independent studies in 2011. As for the price of Correct, it may appear steep, but considering how very little goes a long way, it isn't too bad. One should think of it as a treatment, like a less scientifically proven Renova.

(Oh, and I'm also giving Prep a try; just thought I'd put that out there.)

I absolutely Love all of the YBF products.
I trust them and am amazed at the great customer service.
I am so happy to use the products and happy with the results.
L

So Karolyn, please share with us which products and brands you do like.

I will meet you halfway on the possibility that your company works very hard to make "good ingredient decisions." Your actives are undeniably impressive.

However, I still find the inclusion of triethanolamine in Refresh something less than desirable -- or commmendable. And the inclusion of Propylene Glycol in the Antioxidants Concentrate reviewed above is, quite frankly, just pretty unwholesome.

Moreover, in the Our Ingredients list on your YBF website, neither of these ingredients are listed. I repeat: neither of them are listed. The only questionable you list there is Parabens du -- I would assume because this has become as much an issue for your company as it has for others.

So I continue to stand on my original point.

All best to you too.

I don't think this is a screaming match Karolyn.

We work very hard to make good ingredient decisions, share information and work with our customers and non-customers who are polite to provide even more information and make better products.

Your original comment seems to me, less about TEA and more about some implication that we've skirted an issue (your words). I simply provided you with a response and the attention you've sought.

All my best,
Darrell

I don't want to get into a screaming match about triethanolamine. But I would like to say two things: 1) On a site where you, Marta, have cautioned against LAVENDER, and done so more than once, it's noteworthy that an ingredient like this one gets what can only be called rather a pass. 2) I thank you for the link to your comments here on TIA, Mr. Owens. I was, however, commenting on the information the Reader/Reviewer linked to on YNF's own website, surely more trafficked than this one. Is there information on use of triethalolamine there as well? If not, your point is moot in regard to my own.

Hi Karolyn,
Thank you. We do indeed go to great lengths to provide as much information as we can on our web site. As for the remainder of your comment, you're mistaken.

That's quite an assumptive leap you've made about us in the opinion you've stated in your comment about TEA.

Actually, we haven't "skirted" anything. I've discussed TEA with Marta and many TIA readers in the past.

For your information Karolyn, TEA's reputation comes from old data about adulterated TEA which contains 15% DEA (the compound which is the culprit connected to the formation of potentially harmful nitrosamines).

We use minimal amounts of TEA in our products and the type we use is called Triethanolamine NF, which is lab assayed to be free of DEA.

Karolyn, since you may have missed it, I spoke of our use of TEA in the following article on TIA in May of 2008. Here's a link for you:

http://truthinaging.com/face/your-best-face-control-and-another-spin-trapper

Thank you,
Darrell Owens
Your Best Face Skincare LLC

Here's our ingredient directory listing for more information on triethanolamine http://truthinaging.com/ingredients/triethanolamine

Love the way they go to great lengths to address parabens and totally skirt the issue of triethanolamine. Now that's marketing for you. Wave a big flag here so they don't notice what's over there. Guaranteed they don't have many queries about triethanolamine, it's still flying under the radar for most people, and so long as it does, YBF's going to pretend it's a non-issue.